about his position and let's start with taxes. governor, the president keeps saying that mitt romney is proposing a $5 trillion tax cut. that is not true. >> well, chris, wait a minute here. the governor -- former governor romney is proposing a 20% cut to income taxes, including income taxes for the wealthiest of americans. and, i believe a 30% cut for corporate income taxes, including big all, socking all of us at the pump, right now and any economist may debate whether it adds up to $4.9 trillion or $5 trillion and the fact of the matter. >> clayton: in this debate we saw big bird meet the big lie. those tax cuts, there are costs to those tax cuts, the biggest driver to our deficit... >> chris: if i may, sir, you are talking about half the planet like talking about obama's jobs plan, the entire plan is to give more money to teachers and, that is not obama's plans and similarly you are mischaracterizing the romney plan, saying, it is -- you are right, $5 trillion by lowering the tax rate but he talks about cutting loopholes... >> oh, chris, which loopholes and which deductions? sena